Print

[The Pupi]

It's like waking up with the dog ugly sister of the gorgeous woman you went to bed with after the pub last night...

Slightly disappointed of Alaska...

[manchester blue]

Don't be too disappointed. It wasn't the worst display ever. In the first thirty minutes we played very well without really creating much. We must have passed the ball about twenty times in one move but never really looked like hurting them. Then they scored and we lost our shape. Everton are good. Moyes has built a good team there and we don't have what it takes to beat a team like that at present. We can't play United every week sadly.

There were some plusses for us though not many. We don't have to play them again. And Castillio looked very lively when he came on.

We now have a couple of games we should win before another difficult one - Spurs.

[Ged]

A vast improvement on the game at Goodison as we worked their goalie with five or six minutes remaining rather than waiting until injury time. Woopie f*ckin' do.
There's no point playing nice football from box to box if you've no idea what to do with it once the goals are in sight.
The only good points were the performances of Caicedo and Castillo, but I wonder if they'd have looked as good if Everton bothered to pressure them. We've a great squad, but the team is another matter.

[Mick]

Well it's fair to say that Everton defended well, but we didn't really give them much to defend against. We looked good for half an hour without ever creating any chances - had we continued like that we may eventually have made something, or we may not - probably not to be honest. But once they scored we just seemed to go to pieces. And there was some comic book defending. Caicedo and Castillo looked like they'd have something to offer over the coming months, which is one of the few positives I took from the game. I thought Fernandes had a reasonable game, and Michael Ball played quite well, but nobody else impressed. Vassell worked hard, to as little effect as always. I thought Elano's touch was noticeably poor tonight, but I also think he wasn't playing in his best position - if he's going to do damage he needs to be playing just behind the striker.

Overall, a bit of a let-down.

[Dunnie]

Don't know what Dunnie was on tonight but I hope he doesn't
take it again, not the kind of display we have come to take for
granted from him and I hope someone tapes Micah's arms to his
side for the Wigan game. Petrov behaved like a spoilt kid in the
second half, I was embarrased for him, although, that was never
a red card.
 Thought Fernandes was good, seems to be improving all the time now
and castillo put some nice balls in,would rather have seen Johnson
in midfield than either Ireland or Elano.

[Paul]

Petrov behaved like a spoilt kid in the second half, I was embarrased for him, although, that was never a red card.

Agreed but at least it give Styles his orgasm. Petrov was a pillock, but a clue for any referee is that when you're surrounded by opposition players complaining about a sending off, you may have got it slightly wrong, when one of them is a Neville sister, its seriously time you packed it in.

City were shite tonight, I'm having none of this "positives" rubbish, a bag of w@nk is what we were, Everton even took the piss at the end by letting us attack them. Only 3 of our players worth a mention, Hart 2 good saves, the free kick save was fantastic, what a pity he was the ONLY city player paying attention, and what a pity his poor punch was a catalyst for their second, Castillo looked very good when he came on, but I reserve judgement on that, as Everton were on their coach home by then, and Fernandez was one of the best 3 players on the pitch, rest were still on their winter break, not good enough !

[wasp]

Funnily enough I thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought we attacked with panache, particularly through the full backs. Fernandez continues to grow and show a great attitude. He must now be the first midfield name on the sheet. The disappointments were Ireland , who was content to be peripheral yet again, and Benjani who carried no threat.Were going to see some changes over the next month so its going to be a struggle to find any rythm, but nothing to get too disheartened about.

[Paul]

I thought we attacked with panache

Did you miss off "for the last 10 minutes" ?

85 minutes before a shot on target, SP would be mightily proud of that one.

[wasp]

Think your wrong, Paul. We played some great football and if we hadn't given them two gifts we would have gone on to win.They are a feckin good side who were bound to make a good shot of defending a two goal lead. Our failure was in the box where we had no threat. In the first half, Vass was too reluctant to come into the box close to benjani which would have helped. In the second I was disappointed we never got on the end of crosses but their was plenty going off.Benjani worried me. He looked to have no devil in him.But the approach play, particularly from the fullbacks was good, imo.

[Tragic]

Not the worst display I've seen but a disappointing one as everything we did right at the swamp we got completely wrong last night (last derby at MR anyone…oh look it’s Charlton we’ll murder them…ahem).

We looked good for 30 minutes passed the ball around pretty well but lacked that belief that we could and would get a goal. The plus was that at least we were shooting and putting crosses into the box unlike other matches this season when we’ve turned into a team full of Wilkins clones elegantly squeezing the ball ever sideways. The gamble was sticking with the same side and it didn’t work as 3 (maybe 4) of the back 5 were well below their best and that cost us twice, ditto can be said for the midfield where a couple of players didn’t do their job and we lost our shape. Having said that the defence (as a defensive unit) have more than played their part in keeping us in games etc. this season so I’m not going to be too harsh on last nights “performance”.

Too many players didn’t hit the heights (or even approach the heights) and we gifted them two absolute puddings to take away three points with but one or two impressed me, namely Gelson and Bendyerknee both of which looked the business for most of the game. Good to see Sven swap Richards and Ned in the second half also nice to see Nerys back and looking quite lively, just in time to take over from the incredibly stupid Petrov who was rightly sent off for his second attempt at kicking out at someone within 2 minutes…PILLOCK!!!

Fair play to Everton they did their job really well and looked a decent side, for the most part (defence is a little rocky though) just goes to show what keeping a side together for a few seasons and building/adding quality does…that is our next stage of development although I’d be hoping for a little more flair.

Next time we have an “enforced break” I hope that Sven takes the chaps somewhere for a game as we really don’t do this “break” stuff too well.

Bring on Wigan!!!

ctid

[BlueAnorak]

After the Lord Mayor's Show...
(again)
Very disapointed. Everton sat with 2 defensive midfielders in front of a solid back four. Lots of posession though but we couldn't do anything with it. We kept trying to pass it through the centre!!! Plan A doesn't work so - try plan A again!
We needed width on both flanks but didn't get it out wide to Petrov on the left quick enough quick enough. And nothing was happening on teh right.
Then to cap it all too many players just wern't up to it.
- Dunne had a stinker.
- Hamann had a stinker. Cahill was like the ghost he couldn't get near.
- Richards thought he was playing basket ball.
- Ireland passed OK but how long does it take to get through his thick head that passing through the centre wasn't working!!!!
- Elano's transformation form wonder of wonders to drain continues. Did a doppleganger come back from Brazil in November? 
Of the rest:
Benjanni worked hard but with no service he was never going to do anything.
Fernandez was the highlight of the night (got to do the Abba song for him in some way) - he was excellent and everywhere all night.
Also good was Castillo - he got into space and ran at them and they were worried.

[Incklehbloo]

Hi All - good to be back!

Last night was a bad day at the office - the sort of game we had against Blunderland and Reading but Everton were better equipped to punish us and then having done so defended their lead very well. My two penn'orth for what it's worth.

- All possession and no penetration for the first half hour. That being said I saw Stevie Ireland complete more passes in that time than he has for the past 4 home games.
- Everton marshalled their midfield very well. It left Didi not being able to stay in his usual position and left gaps for their runners to come through. Peinaar was not up to much and Osman was quiet but there was at least the threat which left Yakubu more space than I would have liked.
- The same gap was between Dunne and Micah as the one that Adebayor found.
- Goal Number one - play the friggin' whistle guys! If Ball had carried on instead of looking for offside he'd have got a block in.
- Goal number 2 - Dunnie didn't push out which left Lescott on-side and gave Hart a dilemma in whether to come out or stay back. Can't blame Hart for that and without a few other fine saves we'd have lost by more.
- How many different formations did we try in the last 20 minutes? Micah right midfield, then centre forward, Elano on the right, through the middle then at centre half. WTF!?
- Petrov - the enigma continues. He had a spell when he decided to chase everything and those around me applauded his effort. Then he gets sent off. Personally I'm looking forward to plan B on the left side as he has been first choice plan A all season and we need to look at something different. Castillo is even more one footed than Petrov so should be worth a look given his cameo last night.
- Caceido. How big is that bloke for a 19 year old. He has not adjusted to the pace of the game here at all and like Castillo seems to want an extra touch. Still, I like the cut of his jib but I am not sure where his best position is - hope Sven is!

I think we could give Wiggum a whuppin' on Satdi if Sven gets into them between now and Friday. I think Everton are where they are on merit. Move along please, nothing to see here......

[wasp]

Maybe from here on in Sven is gonna have to take a deep breath, count to three, throw caution to the winds, put his fantasies on hold, and...send out a team without Vas in it.Nah!

[wasp]

Caceido. How big is that bloke for a 19 year old. He has not adjusted to the pace of the game here at all and like Castillo seems to want an extra touch. Still, I like the cut of his jib but I am not sure where his best position is - hope Sven is!

His "jib" is certainly big enough.Reminded me of Seedorf, and that is one big jib.

[Paul]

Think your wrong, Paul. We played some great football and if we hadn't given them two gifts we would have gone on to win.They are a feckin good side who were bound to make a good shot of defending a two goal lead. Our failure was in the box where we had no threat. In the first half, Vass was too reluctant to come into the box close to benjani which would have helped. In the second I was disappointed we never got on the end of crosses but their was plenty going off.Benjani worried me. He looked to have no devil in him.But the approach play, particularly from the fullbacks was good, imo.

Not sure were you watched it from Dave, but i'll stick with my "bag of w@nk" rating. We didn't play any "great" football for me, we had lots of useless possession, culminating in sod all, we did this last year under Pearce, and you were often saying so, we often lost, and didn't win a home game after new year, there's a possible pattern emerging there.....

I don't agree that Everton are a "feckin good side" either, they are a feckin well organised side, and clearly a lot more feckin organised than us judging from last night.

In the first half, a half that many seemed to think we played well in, we gifted them 2 goals, and before they scored could easily have gifted them 2 more, yes we had a spell where we had the ball for long periods, but we did nothing of note with it. Our failure was "in the box", but more especially when we were defending, it cost us two goals, upfront we didn't have a shot on target till 85 minutes, if you don't believe me buy the video if they ever release it. Once Benjani had sussed out how shite we were at supporting him (he did hold it up well in the first 25 minutes), he gave up, frankly I don't blame him.

To sum up, I thought we were pretty dire all round, the defence were dreadful in the first 40 minutes, they did improve to a degree in the second half, but that's because we did very little defending. Our midfield (Fernandes excepted) was all round crap, Upfront we were like we've been most of the season. I know I'm preaching to the converted but how the f**k Vassell gets a game at this level is beyond me, left, right, or centre, if he is really part of our best 11, we are a country mile from a european spot. When he was taken off last night, the woman who sits behind me said "what a shame he's done really well tonight, he's really ran his legs off", in reality he ran everyone's balls off, because that's all he ever does, we let Dickov go on loan to Blackpool, he's probably the same level.

For me it was a performance that showed us up to be nearly men, I like Sven in his city guise (no didn't like him for ingerland), but he was completely out smarted by Moyes last night, he chose the easy option of sticking with the 11 that beat united, when in fact he should have picked our strongest side, of those available. As for the last 20 minutes he looked feckin clueless, too many changes of formation, and in the end 7 strikers was laughable, we did create some chances, but not one worried their defence, while on their odd breakaway Everton looked likely to score, and but for Hart would have done.

Moyes has a team that will die for the cause, we look miles away from that, and on last nights showing only Fernandes would.

Before anyone jumps on me over these comments, I'm not being negative or a "mong", we are much better than what we saw last night, its a comment on just ONE game, but we were outplayed last night, by what I can only call an average, workmanlike, but extremely well organised Everton. (And thats twice now.)

Spurs have won a cup, I think they'll win a second (UEFA), Everton will get 4th on organistation alone, meanwhile we'll finish well off the pace on last nights showing, not enough wanted it, and this was a much bigger game than at Old Trafford.

[Ged]

I agree with most of that Paul, but I'm more concerned with our lack of shots/goals than with our defence.
We've an abundance of skill outside the box, but haven't a clue once the goals are in sight. There have only been a few games this season when we've looked like getting a bagful and too many where we scraped through with a moment of individual brilliance.
Playing 4-5-1 doesn't help when a couple of the midfielders won't shoot (Ireland) or can't shoot (Vassell).
Obviously we're missing Johnson and Elano seems off the pace. I'm just hoping Sven will spend the next few months planning for next season as the players seem as scared of Euro footie as some of the fans.

[Paul]

I agree with most of that Paul, but I'm more concerned with our lack of shots/goals than with our defence.

So am I, but what it boiled down to on Monday night, was that the defence lost us the game by not doing its job, and we still wouldn't have won it even if they hadn't because we didn't look like scoring.

If we're serious about having European ambitions we need to be a lot better than we were on Monday, Everton were just better organised, and took two of the many chances we presented them with. Failing to qualify for Europe will leave us open to losing our better players, and at the same time seriously stunt our chances of getting in the better quality that we still need.

After last season, nobody can be anything other than happy with this season, but we have higher ambitions, and higher outgoings as a result, we can't afford to standstill, as Pupi said in the UEFA Cup topic.

"We want the world and we want it now. Now? NOW!!!!"
Of course we're ready for Europe, we have been for decades. The difference now is we're actually capable of it! I've been waiting most of my life for us to do SOMETHING. If we get it great, grab it by the bollocks and give it all we've got - if not, maybe next season? As sweet as it was, I don't want our win in the borough of Trafford to be our only "cup final" highlight for the next 30+ years.

Monday night was more a "cup final" than Old Trafford was, and once again we failed to turn up when it really mattered.

[wasp]

Well Paul, I bow to that.As you know I like nothing more than a bloke who is prepared to tell it like it is.So full marks.All I would say is that in the first 30 I saw the kind of football I've wanted to see.The ball moved quickly and forwards, and the fullbacks advanced and going beyond the wingers.Ofcourse the downside when you attack is counter attack, but infact the goals were just soft.I dont know how much to blame Sven.It seems to me that there is always the potential for balls ups with Richards(arrogant), Dunney(clumsy)Ireland(neurotic) and Vas(hopeless) in the side.One thing he has hopefully learned is that bigging up this particular group of players is counterproductive.

[Tragic]

I’d have to disagree that our build up play resulted in sod all, from where I was sat it culminated in us choosing the wrong option too often and Everton heading/clearing away crosses. I don’t think the style of play had much to do with it either it was more down to the personnel in my opinion, as well as the small matter of Everton being rather good at the “none shall pass stuff” as well as they way in the which the attack (again not rocket engineering but it works…they’re 4th for a reason). They should be good at it they’ve had 5 years to hone their particular skills, whereas as our side had a matter of months to sort itself out, better teams (more settled and experienced teams) than us will struggle (and have struggled) against them home and away.

Football is rather bizarre when you think a bunch of cloggers like Brum, with 10 men), can pick up a point against @rsenal and we can take 6 points off the eventual champions…and do so fairly comfortably

I’m not saying that the performance was something I’d like to see week in week out but did it really tell us anything that we didn’t already know/suspect I don’t think it did and in my opinion it is no more a yard stick than the derby was a fortnight ago. That’s why I don’t really go in for our season will end in “blah” on the back of any single game, it’s City we’d be champions of the universe one week and playing GNE the week after

We are NOT the finished article, we ARE weak in certain areas.
We must play our strongest side whenever possible.
We are missing Michael Johnson.
Gelson is coming on rather well.
Hamman is having his best season for us, we are not the same side when he doesn’t tick.
Bendyerknee will be a decent player.
Ireland isn’t a first choice attacking option he is a squad player.
Vaz is in the team this season as we don’t really have an “experienced” option.
Ned really isn’t a full back and needs to concentrate more.
Richard’s goes walk about a little too often.
Dunne can lose concentration.
Hart is inexperienced.
Petrov is a typical winger namely brill one moment shite the next.
The team is inexperienced and will drop points against sides that we don’t really expect/want.
Giving away shite goals means you lose games
We really aren’t much good after a lay off…

Even with all those weaknesses we are somehow still well and truly in the hunt for a European place, that’s probably because other teams have the same/similar problems to us. We’re not up there by fluke we’re there because overall we’re not a bad side, certainly brilliant but on the flip side we’re not shite either we’re one of the better “also rans” and that is a distinct improvement and not a bad starting point (although I doubt Sven will it that way…).

So in the end it looks as though it’ll come down to who makes the best of what they’ve got and in which case we’ve got the short straw as we’ve got the least playing time under our belts. Having said that we still have plenty of sides to play that we can beat so I am optimistic/realistic about our chances of Europe and actually coming through this season with a load of positives…and then there's the small matter of who we'll bring in during the summer shhhh

Still...good to be having debates that see us dipping into Shite St. rather than that being our staple diet

ctid

[Paul]

...and then there's the small matter of who we'll bring in during the summer shhhh

The trouble with that small matter is it will be heavily determined by whether or not we get into Europe, there's now one less place to aim for, there may only be one anyway apart from 4th which I can't see us getting now, if we don't we may find that some of our players want to go where they can play in europe.

I'm not moaning about things, for me the performance on Monday wasn't good enough for where we are, and where we're aiming for, too many players on easy street at the start of the game, it was 85 minutes before we had a proper shot on target. Everton didn't have to win the game, we did their job for them, we didn't compete when it mattered, early on. The thing that annoyed me most though was that this was a game we really needed to be up for, we've already been beaten by them once so we should have known what to expect.

Our run in isn't as easy as some make out, we've got to play teams above us (Chelsea (H), Liverpool (A), Portsmouth (H), teams desperate for points to stay up, or finish higher than us (all of them), and teams we don't usually do well against Spurs (H), Middlesbrough (A), Liverpool (A), Bolton (A), Chelsea (H), we'll need to be a lot more "at it" than on Monday night to be in europe on merit (5th spot likely) come August. I reckoned we'd needed 2 points per game before Monday to be sure of the UEFA cup, we now probably need 2.2 pts per game, a very tall order given the games we have to play.

[Opacity]

I agree with pretty much everything Tragic has said there.  I would also add that I have been quite pleased with how Castillo seems to be developing.  He is a good attacking option and it is good to see Sven using him in the reserves and scoring alongside Caicedo.  With Bojinov on his way back gradually we are looking stronger for the medium to long term.

I feel that we must not underestimate the draw of the PL and the amount we will be able to pay people when Frank sorts out his finances as I am very optimistic he will.  There is no way he would go back to Thailand now unless he was exceptionally confident of a positive outcome.  It is easy to say that if we are not in Europe then players will not come indeed may leave but in the summer Elano left CL footie with Shaktar to join us.  OK they were never going to won it but it is more likely than us winning it! (At least this year )

So I think we will see some very good footballers join us in the summer and us kick on to levels we could only dream about before the Sven and Frank show and feel very positive about out future .

[Tragic]

The trouble with that small matter is it will be heavily determined by whether or not we get into Europe, there's now one less place to aim for, there may only be one anyway apart from 4th which I can't see us getting now, if we don't we may find that some of our players want to go where they can play in europe.

Quite possibly...although I think it may have more to do with a cheque book unfortunately, seems to me players make all these noises about Europe, trophies and playing for their country and all it ever seems to translate into is "more money please..." sign of the times?

I think the run in (from memory) is pretty even for all the teams chasing Europe so again it's in our hands still. It'd be nice to be sat where Everton are with a points cushion but we're a season or so away from that (nice to be that close for a change...) should be an interesting run in. We now have a game a week until the end of the season and a full-ish squad to pick from.

ctid

[wasp]

I think we will struggle to get players of the right caliber.All those we bought in the summer were flawed in some substantial way apart from Corluka.We need to get better players to progress as Sven wants. If not, I suspect he'll be off.Paying massively over the odds in fees and wages could change the equasion, but I've seen no sign of that policy being adopted.

[Paul]

Paying massively over the odds in fees and wages could change the equasion, but I've seen no sign of that policy being adopted.

I hope I never do !

I agree about those we signed last summer, and not just that, but Sven had had 12 months being idle to decide who he wanted, wherever he ended up as manager, he won't have that luxury this summer (though I hope he's still looking).

If we want to bring in the calibre of player to take us to the chumps league next season (only a miracle would get us there this season now), the minimum we will need from this s a UEFA cup place, at this time I think we will be lucky to get one, even if we get 17 more points from the next 11 games (that's what we would get based on what we have so far) we might still finish as low as 8th, that wouldn't get us in the inter toto.

Current form is 11 points from the last 10 games, that's a long way short of Europe.

[Droylsden Blue]

To be honest I'm not overly pessimistic after Monday night. True the game was largely a disappointment after the high that was the Derby, but being realistic about it, sooner or later you are going to get beaten at home by some team or other.

Simply put, Everton went about their business with a bit more direction and force than we did. Apart from the fact that their midfield is pacey and above all else strong, ours never really turned up on Monday and I think there in lies a bit of the reason I'm not to worried.

I don't know if this is a singular observation or whether anyone else has noticed this, but I keep getting the feeling that this squad of ours doesn't particularly like playing night games. Some of our worse performances over this and last season were evening matches. I've not analysed the stats, but no shots on goal until the 80something minute is pretty poor fare and more deserving of 'boro than us.

That apart, the new boys look ok, if a little slow at the minute, but with work they will get faster. We need Johnson back ASAP, Ireland for all his flair and flashes of class is too light-weight and far to inconsistent for me. Benjy boy needs a partner up front where it matters, 4-5-1 at home is not good enough to break down teams that come with defences like Everton's.

I could go on, but in truth we are probably about where Sven expected us to be at the start of the season. The start we had built up expectations maybe a little too much. Then again a win against the pie eaters on Saturday and we will be world beaters again...