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Author Topic: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....  (Read 15561 times)

jds

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All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« on: 13 April 2008, 12:14:38 PM »

It's highly entertaining, "a source familiar with City's politics", that's fantastic, it could be anyone from a fanzine editor through an Evening News journo to the CEO.

It's certainly got all the doom and gloomers and anti-Thaksin's crawling out of the woodwork. Some of the posts are the funniest I've seen since Gary Neville got injured.

It's been suggested that it holds more credibility because it's in the Times. Probably be serialised on Sky, then.

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petrusha

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #1 on: 13 April 2008, 01:29:28 PM »

It's highly entertaining, "a source familiar with City's politics", that's fantastic, it could be anyone from a fanzine editor through an Evening News journo to the CEO.

It's certainly got all the doom and gloomers and anti-Thaksin's crawling out of the woodwork. Some of the posts are the funniest I've seen since Gary Neville got injured.

It's been suggested that it holds more credibility because it's in the Times. Probably be serialised on Sky, then.

The same story is in both The Times and The Observer.  It follows on from several recent stories hinting at problems between manager and owner which have appeared in papers, and under the byline of particular journalists, known to be used by senior figures at City for the purpose of leaking information.  Of course, both of today's papers could, by a complete coincidence, have chosen to invent the same story about City and Scolari, but, given the way these things tend to work, by far the more likely option is that they've been briefed by someone at or connected with the club.  Perfectly reasonable to discuss it in light of that.  Not all of the discussion is sensible or informed, but when has it ever been?
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jds

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #2 on: 13 April 2008, 02:23:03 PM »

Maybe it's just my sense of humour or that it's a dull Sunday morning, I find a lot of the reaction (especially the over the top cliched rubbish) very funny.

So you don't think "a source familiar with City's politics" could just be some little shit-stirrer, maybe someone who's either tried in the past few months to get into the boardroom or even someone who's recently left, Peter?

At least it's a little bit more credible than when a rumour was invented on BV and within a couple of hours it was published accredited to "A source close to City".......
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Paul

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #3 on: 13 April 2008, 02:24:17 PM »

There are a couple of senior employee's at the club who could currently benefit from some unrest in the club. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they are behind this stuff. It can easily be quietened by a simple "this story is bullshit" real quote from Frank.

IF it turns out to be true and we really are thinking of sacking Sven, then its likely I would ask for my season card money back, as I would no longer want to financially support a club who continue to run this way.
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epun

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #4 on: 13 April 2008, 05:22:47 PM »

I dunno, it could be fun having a top manager every season 'till we win something. It does seem strange that we started the first half of the season on fire only for two or three injuries to throw the whole thing out of kilter. Is it just that the squad was too small? or was it interferrance from above? or erikson with no plan b? Seems to me if the story is true erikson needs to look at his tactics over the second half of the season. For the record though I feel we should give the man the three seasons and then make a judgement.
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petrusha

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #5 on: 13 April 2008, 06:24:02 PM »

So you don't think "a source familiar with City's politics" could just be some little shit-stirrer, maybe someone who's either tried in the past few months to get into the boardroom or even someone who's recently left, Peter?

I think it unlikely.  But then - and this wasn't really a road I wanted to go down, because I hate it when other people post stuff like this - a couple of usually reliable contacts who have proved to be right with this kind of info before have been telling me stuff that leads me to believe the reports are largely true.  Whether things are serious enough for Sven to leave is another matter, but I do believe that he and Frank are not very happy with one another right now.
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petrusha

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #6 on: 14 April 2008, 08:39:59 AM »

A report in the Indy today denies the story.

Link here: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/eriksson-safe-from-sack-as-city-progress-pleases-thaksin-808707.html.  Or text cut and pasted in below.

Quote
Eriksson safe from sack as City 'progress' pleases Thaksin

By Ian Herbert
Monday, 14 April 2008

Manchester City yesterday said Sven Goran Eriksson's job was safe, amid reports that the club's owner, Thaksin Shinawatra, was dissatisfied and ready to replace the Swede with the current Portugal coach, Felipe Scolari.

City are bemused by suggestions Thaksin might have been in discussions with agents about replacing Eriksson, whose side's season has fizzled out despite a strong home record. The Thai has spent the last few weeks in Bangkok, where he makes his latest court appearance on corruption charges this week, and will not be back in Manchester until next Sunday's home match with Portsmouth.

It is possible that agents' contact with Thaksin's representatives at Eastlands have given rise to suggestions of Eriksson's demise, which first surfaced two weeks ago. But Thaksin is the man who makes the decisions and Eriksson's removal seems inconceivable. Victory at Sunderland on Saturday saw the club to its highest Premier League points tally.

"The chairman has made it clear only a few weeks ago that he is happy about the progress we have made this season with a top-10 finish being his target," said a club spokesman. "We remain focused on continuing the domestic progress made under Thaksin Shinawatra."

The links between agents and Thaksin's representatives also came to light last week when it was suggested that Ronaldinho might come to the club. Thaksin was not involved in any such discussions and the Brazilian now seems ready to sign for Milan. City have been adamant that they are not interested in buying a £120,000-a-week player – despite Thaksin's view that the purchase of a superstar might be desirable in order to fill Eastlands.

Though Thaksin has used "superagents" to overcome his lack of football knowledge – Jerome Anderson assisted in the decision to bring Eriksson in last summer – the chief executive, Alistair Macintosh, was the key figure in two of the three signings in the January transfer window.
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Tragic

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #7 on: 14 April 2008, 08:59:27 AM »

I think there will be "interesting" times ahead for Sven and Frank as they thrash out stages 2 and 3 of the "big plan" but nothing more than that. At the end of the day we can change managers as often as we like it wont do us much good in the long run. Stability would be nice and Sven's record at club level isn't bad...if Frank is determined to bring in a "bums on seats" player then as long as Sven gets to choose him I can't see him complaining too much, in fact I don't see Sven (or any other Prem manager for that matter) being too peed off that their chairman is apparently trying to lure the likes of Ronaldinho to their club.

Still it wouldn't be City without some doom mongering would it ;)

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jds

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #8 on: 14 April 2008, 11:21:08 AM »

So you don't think "a source familiar with City's politics" could just be some little shit-stirrer, maybe someone who's either tried in the past few months to get into the boardroom or even someone who's recently left, Peter?

I think it unlikely.  But then - and this wasn't really a road I wanted to go down, because I hate it when other people post stuff like this - a couple of usually reliable contacts who have proved to be right with this kind of info before have been telling me stuff that leads me to believe the reports are largely true.  Whether things are serious enough for Sven to leave is another matter, but I do believe that he and Frank are not very happy with one another right now.

Peter, I personally take a lot of notice of what you say and put a lot of faith in it because you don't hint at sources, even though we all know you have/had contacts within the game. You also tell as you find.

I've just been reading a couple of other posts, on other boards from people who claim to have "sources". One in particular has so many (barely) hidden agendas it's not funny.

It's easy for us to ignore them, but if, as today's reports suggest, the situation isn't quite as bad as it appears it's time for the Club to smoke some of the doom mongers out. Other clubs have done it, it's time for us to.
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petrusha

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #9 on: 14 April 2008, 02:25:18 PM »

Peter, I personally take a lot of notice of what you say and put a lot of faith in it because you don't hint at sources, even though we all know you have/had contacts within the game. You also tell as you find.

I've just been reading a couple of other posts, on other boards from people who claim to have "sources". One in particular has so many (barely) hidden agendas it's not funny.

It's easy for us to ignore them, but if, as today's reports suggest, the situation isn't quite as bad as it appears it's time for the Club to smoke some of the doom mongers out. Other clubs have done it, it's time for us to.

Jon, thanks for the kind words.

At one point, I used to try to give whatever inside information I could.  However, I learned that if you can't say who or where it comes from, it's better to avoid saying anything.  MyCity  connections, in fact, aren't that close to the action any more - they used to be extremely reliable. 

I'm inclined to assume the worst about information being leaked from MCFC simply because there have been many negative stories over the last 15 years or so that I assumed were people outside the club stirring only to find out that MCFC had been leaking like a sieve.  There are still people at the club who operate in that way.  The idea of Frank and Sven not seeing eye-to-eye matches some rumours I've heard on the grapevine and I can also imagine Frank being a tough task master, so I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

I take the point that it was a story that allowed the anti-Thaksin brigade to come out in force, and that some people have an obvious agenda.  And there were all the accusations of him not putting in any money.  As it happens, he probably hasn't put in as much as some people think, and it's all conjecture because the financial erporting requirements now we're not a PLC means that we don't have the information at our disposal to make an assessment.  I agree that there are posters who look to use the lack of investment as a stick to beat him with when the position on that is, at best, unclear.

I hope that today's comments on Sven and his position at the club more accurately reflect what's going to happen in the summer.  However, I've been awaiting Thaksin's appointment of a new Executive Chairman and any other consequent changes in personnel for a long time, and I hope he'll do what's right on that front to enable the club to progress.
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Mick

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #10 on: 14 April 2008, 05:39:03 PM »

There is something I find a little disturbing in all this. Since the new regime took over at City, the club has been mostly leak-free, and such rumours as we've seen (generally concerning transfers) have been very obviously media speculation or fuelled by agents or other clubs. Suddenly, this one appears, which by any measure appears to have more credibility than most, and the comments by Petrusha and one or two others on other boards tend to lend weight to that.

Personally, I think it would be very foolish to either sack Sven or make it sufficiently uncomfortable for him that he wants to leave. It's noticeably that although many have expressed reservations, often quite serious reservations, about Sven's tactics and selection, there  is no groundswell amongst the fans for his replacement, and it seems to me that it is generally accepted that he needs more time to build his team, and we need more time to judge him on that. The most "anti-Sven" comments I have read thus far have been along the lines of, "if he doesn't get his ducks in a row early next season we'll need to think about it." I hope Frank is paying attention.

As for attracting fans, if that's what Frank is about, by buying in a big name or two - well, I have no particular objection to a big name or two, and I don't imagine Sven does either, provided that the big name(s) in question meet(s) with Sven's approval and fit(s) in with his plans, and also that it does not take place at the expense of us attracting the slightly smaller names that we need in various positions. 

I reckon, though, that an aging galactico who's after a final payday will do us more harm than good on the pitch and off it if he is imported at the expense of general team building. Been there, done that. What will put bums on seats in my view is a City team which genuinely competes and plays attractive football along the way - the Arsenal model, rather than the Chelsea model. I think that's what Sven wants - or at least that's what he said he wants, and what it looked like we were getting in the autumn. And it's what I want, and I'd be surprised not to find myself in a majority amongst Blues in that desire. Again, I hope Frank is paying attention.
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Paul

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #11 on: 14 April 2008, 09:43:55 PM »

A few things stand out to me.....

1. Re a major signing to put bums on seats, I personally think this would be a waste of money, as it simply wouldn't work, and even if it did, its not going to increase revenue from match day by a huge amount, it may obviously increase shirt sales, but most of the blues I know that aren't going, still wouldn't go, and similarly wouldn't buy a shirt. A change of attitude from the club towards its supporters might make a difference, my impression is that they don't give a toss. (Prices of lots of things, number of TV matches, changed kick off's at short notice, expecting us to buy season tickets in February). On the playing side we have our academy producing players, and Sven's approach has been to bring in young talent to build a young athletic team to compliment our academy, its a plan I really like, and one I think will work. If Shinawatra is seriously worried about bums on seats, then success is the way to go, not overpaid superstars.

2. Re Sven and Shinawatra not getting on, well it would be nothing new for an owner and general manager to have disagreements, in fact I think I'd be worried if they didn't. If it was an irreconcilable difference then why would Shinawatra wait till the summer to sack Sven ? I can't see that it would make much difference to our final league position. I don't doubt they have had a disagreement or two, but I doubt its as serious as some media would like people to think.

3. Re leaks, here I suspect that Mackintosh, Tyrell, and Wardle all have reasons why they might like some turmoil behind the scenes, Mackintosh must be seriously worried about his position, he wasn't Shinawatra's man, and its been well documented that City are looking for someone with more clout. Personally it couldn't come soon enough for me, as I have serious issues with the fella, and serious doubts over his ability. Tyrell is our mouthpiece, but what does he ever say ? He's rarely seen or heard, and when he is, its usually something trivial, I don't see the point in having him there, he's not exactly set the world alight with his PR. Likewise Wardle, he's surely only there now as a link to the past, so what is the point ? I can't see him having any long term role on the board, he doesn't really have the charisma to do anything useful, a nice bloke by all accounts, and nice in football usually means weak, he was certainly weak when he was chairman. All the other board members are Shinawatra's people so it won't be them leaking things unless there is a serious rift with Sven, but if there was surely he would just get the boot ?

4. The media in England, they hate Sven after his England reign, they would just love it if Sven failed, and our recent form has given them a second wind, they also love to hound a manager out, and I fancy they see Sven as the ultimate manager to hound. His reign with England was good, if remarkable for being unspectacular in terms of excitement, in fact he actually turned me off England, but looking back on his time, I don't think he had the players to do what he wanted.

5. The way Sven has City playing, for 5 months it was very good, but a spate of injuries changed everything, we were always likely to have a bad run anyway, but I still think he wants us playing the way he did in September, I just don't think a number of this squad are up to it. On Saturday Elano played a number of great passes, that our current team simply weren't up to, it made Elano look poor, the long ball constantly played by Hart, Dunne, and Ball was a complete waste, we looked so much better when we played a passing game, sadly our attacking players weren't up to it. Ireland was (not for the first time) useless, Benjani totally isolated, Petrov was on another planet, Elano was chief creator, and he did create, ironically Vassell turned out to be the match winner, with the scruffiest of finishes. I don't think Sven has changed the way he wants us to be playing, I just don't think a number of them are up to it. Rather than bring in one superstar, I'd like us to bring in 5 or 6 players of the youth and quality we did last summer, that's how we should progress.

I don't claim to have any inside knowledge, nor any great insight into the running of a football club like Peter has, but for me any info coming from "within" the club is coming from someone who has another agenda, and most likely the 3 mentioned above, the only other person I think it could be is Sven himself, if he feels that he's not being listened too, but its just not his style. I'd hope that this is the final nail in the coffin of whoever it is with Shinawatra, he doesn't strike me as someone who would accept leaks like this.

If it is all down to Shinawatra's impatience then god help us, we've been down the sacking route so many times already, and its never worked, all it ever does is increase the length of time before we do achieve something. If it does turn out to be true then I will vote with my feet and stay away.

We currently have a world class club manager, despite our recent form, and if we get rid of him, or force him out, then we might as well get Swales back, because we will never move forward.
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petrusha

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #12 on: 15 April 2008, 09:27:46 AM »

I agree with pretty much everything in the two posts above.

I think a 'trophy signing' would be more aimed at increasing our profile abroad and building a brand rather than simply selling the 5,000 tickets for each league game that are currently unsold.  Selling all those tickets, even presupposing an average price of GBP 30 and no extra expense in accommodating a full house as opposed to a crowd with several thousand empty seats, works out at under GBP 3 million, and that's before the Council takes its cut.  No, what he wants is a player who'll ensure that people in Asia want to pay MCFC GBP 1 million to come and play against us, that sponsors will double what they're prepared to pay to get their name on our kit and so on.  Ronaldinho, in commercial terms, could do that.

As Mick says, it would be great if we could get the kind of player who could do that and would fit into the team to Sven's satisfaction, then deliver.  Bloody big 'if', though.  The players with that kind of profile (as we're currently seeing with Ronaldinho) would want, and get offers of, Champions League football from clubs able to match or better any salary we'd offer.  Anyone who'd come to us would be likely to be completely over the hill.  That's the flaw in the strategy!

I don't doubt that there's a lot of media hostility towards Sven after his time as England manager and that it impacts on the coverage.  Equally, I do think that there has been conflict between Sven and Thaksin and that each has been a little disappointed with the other.  I'd like to think that it won't make an ending of their relationship inevitable at this stage.  There's always a worry with someone like Thaksin, though, because he won't have got where he's got to in life without being ruthless, and if he wants things done his way, they will be even if it means saying goodbye to Sven (see also Ambramovich v Mourinho at Chelsea).

Finally, I agree with Paul about Tyrell and AM.  I don't like the way Tyrell goes about his job - far too aggressive, which is counter-productive.  Offering threats to media organisations like the BBC, and even the tabloid press (tw@ts though they undoubtedly are), isn't going to work because we're Manchester City, not United, so people will just ignore them and remain full of ill will.  And when we're trying to build a brand, portraying the club in the most positive light in as many media outlets as possible (even the hated tabloids) is important.  I really think we could do much better.

Ditto for AM.  When Thaksin bought City, he paid GBP 21 million for the shares in the club.  Newcastle, a club to whose level (in financial terms) we quite legitimately aspired at the time of the stadium move, were sold for GBP 133 million just before our takeover, and they were in debt to the tune of GBP 100 million.  The reason we went for such a small sum was our financial position and performance: every year since our move to the new stadium, we failed to generate sufficient operating profit to fund the 'rent' payable to the Council and interest on our debts.  The sooner the time comes when we no longer employ the man whose period in day-to-day charge of the club coincides exactly with that unhappy state of affairs, the better, as far as I'm concerned.
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Droylsden Blue

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #13 on: 16 April 2008, 01:46:20 AM »

I can't really offer any insight into the current rumours and like most people can only take an educated guess at what is going on, however one thing did strike me as very odd last week.

When the rumour surfaced about Ronaldinho, Sven immediately denied all knowledge of it, even though almost to a man the newspapers had been briefed/ given the story. Now in the not to distant past we have been linked with allsorts of players and by and large Sven has fielded the comments with a passive remark or two to the effect that journos should shove off and mind there own business as that isn't the way MCFC do their business anymore. Nope in this instance he expressed total surprise that the link had been made...

The last time I remember a manager doing that was a certain Mourinho right before Chelsea bought Shevchenko, and that turned out to be his chairman and owner exercising his right to buy a player HE wanted and go right over his manager/employees head.

Maybe it means nothing, maybe it means that Sven is being cut out of some of the loop and that Thaksin feels that the time has come to take a more direct approach now that his problems back home seem to be easing a little.

Not sure how to take this one, but it does leave me feeling a bit uneasy for possible events over the summer break.
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petrusha

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #14 on: 16 April 2008, 10:55:24 AM »

Well, Thaksin's been speaking at a conference in Dubai, and what he says isn't going to put the rumours to bed - see in particular the highlighted section (if that also refers to the chief executive and certain other key staff, however, it's not all bad news, however).  SSN is already apparently going with a 'Breaking News' ticker about Sven's future being under review.

The following is from the MEN - presume the quotes have just come in on the news wires:   

Quote
Thaksin non-committal on Sven future

Chris Bailey
16/ 4/2008

MORE question marks have been placed against the future of Sven-Goran Eriksson as City boss following an interview with owner Thaksin Shinawatra.

Speaking from a business conference in Dubai the City chairman gave ambiguous answers to questions over the manager’s position.

Asked if he was minded to sack the Swede after just one season in which the Blues have recorded their best ever Premier League points total, the former Thai Prime Minister was non-committal.

"There are no plans at the moment. We will have to evaluate at the end of the season," he said. “I'm not happy with the performance of the club in the second half of the season.

"We will look at it at the end of the season and assess the club and the people involved."


The Blues supremo did, however, make it clear that he has not met and does not know ‘Big Phil’ Scolari, the man whispered to be Eriksson’s successor should the axe fall.

He also spelled out that there will be plenty of changes in the make up of the team for the start of next season.

"We'll probably have to sell some players and buy some new ones. We need some defenders, midfielders... midfielders are the key," he said. "We have some good players but we need more."

Only last month Shinawatra declared that the side was bang on course to achieve his aim this season – a top ten place - and that he had already sat down and set out his plans for next season with Eriksson.

Earlier in the season, following a scintillating start to the campaign he had hinted that the former England coach had a job for life with the Blues.

At the weekend City issued a statement in which they re-iterated all was well.

“The chairman made it clear very recently that he was happy with the progress made this season and that a top ten finish was his target this season,” it said.

“Our win at Sunderland equals the club’s biggest points tally in Premier League history and with four games to go everybody remains focussed on continuing the dramatic progress we have under Thaksin Shinawatra and Sven-Goran Eriksson.”

Shinawatra is due back in England for the game against Portsmouth when fans will be expecting a clarification of the situation.

The overwhelming majority of them would not be happy with Eriksson’s removal in a season that most regard as a big step in the right direction with a high league finish and a derby double.
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alfons

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #15 on: 16 April 2008, 11:09:30 AM »

The highlighted section seems eminently sensible.  However, it won't "spin" well in dear old black/white tabloid land. 
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petrusha

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #16 on: 16 April 2008, 11:17:05 AM »

The highlighted section seems eminently sensible.  However, it won't "spin" well in dear old black/white tabloid land. 

It certainly is eminently sensible, but it's also a statement that will almost inevitably be taken by those who want to make a story out of it as meaning that Sven's job is on the line.  I think that Frank generally answers these questions with honesty but isn't necessarily aware of how his response is likely to be reported.
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Paul

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #17 on: 16 April 2008, 11:25:42 AM »

He could also be talking about the playing staff, we already know that any contract negotiations have been put on hold till the end of the season, it could simply be Frank referring to this.

That said its not very helpful. I wonder if our PR man had any say in Franks comments, I suspect not.
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jds

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #18 on: 16 April 2008, 02:05:26 PM »

The club employs over 200 people, not just Sven. You wouldn't think it watching the TV and viewing the papers.

I love this piece of anti-news....

"We'll probably have to sell some players and buy some new ones."

Premiership owner in "We'll review the club at the end of the season" shock.
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Paul

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #19 on: 16 April 2008, 02:42:33 PM »

"We'll probably have to sell some players and buy some new ones."

Only probably ?  ;)

Benn home for lunch and watched SKY, but I haven't yet seen the quote diectly saying that Sven would be reviewed, only that there will be a review, I didn't see/hear the interview so assume it was a direct question about Sven that he answered. Either way I'd wager there'll be a review at the other 19 premiership clubs in the summer as well.


I see "Manchester City refused to comment" on their owners comments, time for Tyrell yto earn some money (what do you mean don't be silly ?).
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BlueAnorak

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #20 on: 16 April 2008, 03:16:03 PM »

Interesting comments from City's Saviour in Dubai:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_city/s/1045464_sven_future_under_microscope

Yes he's going to review how things have gone (as he should) - not just Sven though, the players and management staff too (by the way things have been phrased).

He'll be barking mad to fire Sven after one season (especially after he's met TS's original criteria) - we know that having a revolving managr's door doesn't work. That said a couple of players need launching into orbit for there lack of effort - as do Tosh and Tyrell.

Then again the way things have gone since Christmas - Sven does have a lot to answer for in terms of continually shoving square pegs in round holes and his complete failure in being able to change tactics.

 
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petrusha

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #21 on: 16 April 2008, 03:42:47 PM »

I'll assume for the moment that the question was asked along the lines reported.  I'll also assume that Thaksin's reply is accurately quoted.  Let's put it in context.

There have been a whole series of newspaper stories recently, some of them ostensibly sourced from within the club, saying that Sven either may or probably will be fired in the summer.  Then some journalist collars the owner at a conference and asks if Thaksin is "minded to sack" Eriksson.

Thaksin's reply conspicuously fails to deny that and goes on to note that: (i) he's unhappy with the way the season has unfolded in its second half; (ii) the relevant individuals will be assessed at the end of the season.

Now, I think it's fair to assume that a big part of Thaksin's dissatisfaction is based on the results and performances of the team.  And who at the club is bears the ultimate responsibility for team affairs?   Why, none other than Sven, of course.  So he may be referring to other individuals as well, but it would seem highly unlikely that he's exempting Sven.  And by stressing his dissatisfaction and talking about a review in the summer, what's the implication?

If you were Sven, and were aware there'd been recent speculation about your job being on the line, then saw these comments, what would you think?  Would it leave you thinking that your job was in danger?  I think it probably would.  Let's put it this way - I wouldn't be surprised if Athole Still were contacting the likes of Benfica and Valencia as we speak.

So in the circumstances and taking the context into consideration, I don't think we should get too hung up on the literal meaning of the words and the fact they don't expressly refer to Sven.  I've seen threads on various City boards this afternoon and lots of people are just believing what they want to believe.  There's absolutely nothing wrong in the way this is being reported, and if Thaksin didn't want that, he shouldn't have said what he did.

EDIT - Incidentally, I don't preclude the comments being made for another reason or the interpretation I've outlined not being completely correct.  I'm really arguing that it's totally reasonable for them to be reported in the way they currently are being, and if we don't like that, we should be criticising Thaksin and not the news sources.
« Last Edit: 16 April 2008, 03:53:21 PM by petrusha »
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H

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #22 on: 16 April 2008, 04:43:47 PM »

I'm inclined to agree with Peter on this. Thaksin is not stupid and, as a politician, knows plenty about the media and how stories can be spun. He will be fully aware of all the media speculation. This is a man who employs people just to read newspapers and websites to keep him up to date with everything. He was given an open opportunity to make a statement that Sven's position is safe but chose not to say that. That doesn't mean Sven is about to be sacked but it does mean that he still has to prove something over the next four games. It could of course all be a clever plot, with Sven's approval, to motivate the players but that seems highly unlikely. I think it would be a ludicrous decision if he did sack Sven but it does seem like their relationship has deteriorated in recent weeks for some reason.
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The Pupi

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #23 on: 16 April 2008, 05:10:14 PM »

Not being bitchy or nothing Rich, but if I hear that square pegs in round holes comment one more time... ;D
I think we've (here and Wooks) got it now mate :)

PS Totally different subject, What do you know about CSS? or maybe it's scripting of some description I'm after. I'll PM you.
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Mick

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Re: All this "Sven out" stuff appearing on other boards....
« Reply #24 on: 16 April 2008, 05:39:05 PM »

I think that Frank generally answers these questions with honesty but isn't necessarily aware of how his response is likely to be reported.
Frank is a successful politician and businessman, and I reckon he knows exactly what he's doing. I think he answers with as much honesty as suits him at the time, and I'm sure he's aware of how his responses are likely to be reported.

However, if he's seriously considering ditching Sven at the end of the season, then he's not as clever as I'm giving him credit for. He obviously knows about politics and business - at least in a Far Eastern context, but the tenor of his remarks indicate to me that he doesn't know a great deal about Premiership football - or else he does, but doesn't much care how he's perceived by the fans here in Britain.

Either way, if he wants to make a success of the club, and I presume he must, then sacking a manager with a proven track record after one season when, however he's done it (even allowing for BA's square pegs in round holes!  ;)) he's achieved what he set out to do, and what he was asked to do, is nothing short of crazy. Nobody who knows owt about the game, and I include everybody who's posted about this either here or on Wookies, wants Sven sacked. Bugger how it'll play in the Far East - apart from anything else it'll go down like a cup of cold sick with anybody who might be interested in the job. The only reason for sacking him, short of misconduct of some sort, might be an irretrievable breakdown in relations, and if that's the case I think Frank should be bloody well retrieving them. Certainly in football terms it would be a diabolical decision.

If Frank does employ people to read websites and keep their finger on the pulse of what the fans are thinking then he should be getting a very clear message. And I'm hoping and expecting that he will get a clear message from the crowd on Sunday that we still want Sven as manager. I don't know what Frank really intends, and as a popularist perhaps he's only actually interested in his popularity back home in Thailand, but if he carries on in this vein I suspect that City fans will fall very much out of love with him.

Right, I'm off to copy and paste most of that into Wookies cos I can't be arsed rephrasing it.
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