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Author Topic: Mr. Joe Hart esq...  (Read 12251 times)

Tragic

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Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« on: 05 October 2008, 10:38:01 PM »

get your head from out of your fucking arse sunshine and sort out what's happening at your near post, 2 goals in 4 days at your near post now dickhead...I want last seasons goalkeeper back not this flapping flat footed twonk!

Frustrated by today...all changed permanently with the sending off (didn't think it was at the time but I haven't seen a replay and seriously doubt it was as bad as the two footed fouls from behind on both SWP and Elano) and how we reacted on and off field to that, namely badly erm Gelson at Right Back are you having a fucking laugh Lezzoh?!?

Not a bad game overall (although I do wonder what exactly Jo has to do to win a free kick near the opposition penalty box...) there are signs that we're not far off being a decent side, but we are unbalanced at the moment although I do have to say that MotD may be over egging the pudding somewhat with the last bit of the game commentary I caught with the "greatest comeback ever..." nonsense.

The lack of balance is something Lezzoh can sort out in Jan but I'm guessing it'll take a bit of thought and will be at the end of the season. Kompany man marked Gerrard superbly and as ever stop him stop Liverpool, it was only once he wasn't able to do that after the sending off that Gerrard started to pull strings and we were somewhat bolloxed. Certainly more pleasing on the eye today although we did get one less point than last seasons backs to the wall none-shall-pass defendathon...

ctid
« Last Edit: 05 October 2008, 11:19:24 PM by Tragic »
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wasp

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #1 on: 06 October 2008, 12:30:22 AM »

To me its the defensive coaching thats crap, J. Hart made massive progress last season, latterly under Steel. He was sacked for a bunch of feckin druids and all  of the defenders have gone backwards since.I was very optimistic walking to the game up the backway behind Coms. But not as optimistic as the bloke practising the art of the upstream nymph(fly fishing) in the Medlock.Anyone else see him?
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PeterT

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #2 on: 06 October 2008, 01:42:52 AM »

comeback my arse...... that sounds quite wrong now that I've typed it.

I suspect that (armchair view) Pablo deserved the red but as is pointed out, where was the card for Skirtl when he kicked lumps out of Jo? Not even a free?

Hardly heard Gerrard's name on the commentary until the red card.

Dissappointed that Micah let Torres get away for the headed goal.

Pleased for Garrido getting on the score sheet, that was a peach of a goal but he didn't half make me feel nervous when we were down a man and up against it.

Mostly I was disappointed that we couldn't defend a 2-0 lead then couldn't defend a draw.
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BlueTherapy

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #3 on: 06 October 2008, 11:32:48 AM »

afternoon all saqt in greek sunshine checking emails and laughing because my greek pals lost their money betting on city to win,.  bloody frustrating game that was.  anyway yassous and yammas
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Tragic

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #4 on: 06 October 2008, 01:12:10 PM »

where was the card for Skirtl when he kicked lumps out of Jo? Not even a free?

Seems like the "what goes around comes around" karma gnome has bitten him on the @rse...well knee ;)

Link from the beeb

ctid
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BongoBlue

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #5 on: 07 October 2008, 04:55:48 PM »

where was the card for Skirtl when he kicked lumps out of Jo? Not even a free?

Seems like the "what goes around comes around" karma gnome has bitten him on the @rse...well knee ;)

Link from the beeb

ctid

Need to find that still shot of his studs buried in Jo's back. Think it was on Bluemoon.

What an ugly fooker Skrtel is though. Makes even Caveman Tevez look half decent.
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Langer Dan

PeterT

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #6 on: 07 October 2008, 06:35:33 PM »

Well off topic, but.....



Now that's ugly.
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PeterT

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #7 on: 07 October 2008, 09:13:03 PM »

Slightly closer to topic, I don't think Skrtel (spelling it right now) is such a dislikeble player dispite that challenge and I'm glad to read on teletext that his injury isn't as bad as it might be. Just looked bloody painful
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canadablue

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #8 on: 08 October 2008, 07:40:54 AM »

Agreed. No op. needed, and I don't want to see any player badly hurt. . But heshould have had at least a yellow card for that tackle as it was high and hard and studs first on Jo.

I think he's a good defender and wouldn't mind him at City. It did look painful. So did the ref's ignoring of his foul.
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Mick

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #9 on: 08 October 2008, 08:26:30 PM »


Need to find that still shot of his studs buried in Jo's back. Think it was on Bluemoon.


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BlueAnorak

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #10 on: 09 October 2008, 07:13:07 AM »

get your head from out of your fucking arse sunshine and sort out what's happening at your near post, 2 goals in 4 days at your near post now dickhead...I want last seasons goalkeeper back not this flapping flat footed twonk!

Oh dear, not you as well. Sorry mate but Hart may be slightly at fault (in a tertiary kind of way) but the main fault lies elsewhere with Dunne, Richards and Garrido. They're playing like fecking drains at the moment.

Goal 1 you talk about:
[1] Garrido away with the fairies is too cloase to the corner taker. The resulting cross flies 3 feet over his head. Criminal defending.
[2] Richards isn't watching the ball. fails to get a head on it and he should have.
[3] Ben - on the wrong side of the Omonium who gets a free header.
[4] Hart picks ball out of net. Obviously his fault for not making a miracle save.

Goal 2:
[1] Where is the city player on the edge of the 6 yard box that Gerrard has to get his corner over to even worry our defender.
[2] Kompany colides with Micah and both take each other out of the game.
[3] Where is the City player standing at the near post - oh yes Hughes doesn't play with one for some reason.
[4] Hart goes for the ball knows he isn't going to get past 3 Liverpool players and a late arriving City player to get the ball - a mistake but small compared with the first 3 - so it's obviously ALL his fault.

- Sorry mate but Cech would probably have picked the ball out of the net under those circumstances. Though I confess that in the 2nd instance he may have kept coming and possibly get a foul for barging two Liverpool players out of the way to get to the ball.

Our defence has gone backwards since Hughes took over. They dont know what the feck they're doing and it's very worrying.
- Why has Hughes swapped Dunne and Richards over from last season?
- Why is Garrido playing. He isn't a championship standard defender. let alone the Prem?
- Why has Hughes stopped having a guy on the near post at corners?

Answers on a postcard to:
Mark (Lezzoh) Hughes,
(Supposed) Defensive Wizzard ,
C/O MCFC
« Last Edit: 09 October 2008, 07:26:25 AM by BlueAnorak »
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maccblue

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #11 on: 09 October 2008, 09:46:18 AM »

We should never have let fzalcke  Fazerclk Fezxce ....that pie muncher go, he was obviously another football genius weve missed.
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Tragic

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #12 on: 09 October 2008, 10:54:05 AM »

Oh dear, not you as well. Sorry mate but Hart may be slightly at fault (in a tertiary kind of way) but the main fault lies elsewhere with Dunne, Richards and Garrido. They're playing like fecking drains at the moment.

Our defence has gone backwards since Hughes took over. They dont know what the feck they're doing and it's very worrying.
- Why has Hughes swapped Dunne and Richards over from last season?
- Why is Garrido playing. He isn't a championship standard defender. let alone the Prem?
- Why has Hughes stopped having a guy on the near post at corners?

Sorry mate but last time I looked it was Joe Hart keeping goal for City not Lezzoh, the near post goals ARE the fault of the keeper when he chooses not to have a man at the near post (but does the far?) and increasingly with Messr Hart when he flaps or is caught flat footed. Looks to me that we have a young keeper who is starting to believe his own hype, he isn't Englands No 1 just yet and isn't big or good enough to defend 2/3's of a goal at a corner no matter what he thinks...

Goal 1.

Garrido told where to stand by Hart.
Near post ball CB beaten to ball.
GK nowhere to be seen.
No man on post; ball in back of net...

Goal 2.

Torres ace run and free header.
Micah runs into back of Kompany.
Again no man on near post.
Again GK nowhere to be seen.
Again ball in back of net...

As a keeper IF you don't don't have a man on the near post then you'd better make sure that you're on your toes and anything that arrives in that area you claim or punch. First player that touches you gives away a free kick anyway (or should do) but you DO NOT hesitate and you DO NOT stay on your line you have to be positive.

The whole point of having a man there is because that is rather tricky with a decent near post ball as you don't have very long to spot what's happening and act accordingly so belt and braces. Chelsea, @rse, ManU, Liverpool etc. etc. ALL play a man on the near post as should we...especially as we're not the biggest side on the planet! That is something for Hart to sort out it is his job...end of!

The fundamental point of this season for Messr Hart is - You either claim crosses (James) or stay on your line (Seaman) you don't do dabble with both as defenders then don't have a clue what to expect, if you aren't coming to claim everything then you defend BOTH posts.

I haven't heard of any manager at any club telling a goalkeeper whether he can or cannot have a man on either post, it isn't down to him it's down to the keeper and keeping coach for some reason this season we're not playing with one and we should be...where have you heard/read that this decision is down to Lezzoh mate?

I agree our defence isn't as strong as was last season probably because we're playing a much more open game (1 holding player), but I still believe that this is in no small part down to Hart. His "form" since pre-season has been gash, his decision making is flawed, he is hesitating, his positioning is often a joke and he's stopped talking; in short he is getting a lot of the "basics" wrong...that is one reason why our CB's in particular are looking uncertain, it's because they are.

In answer to your points above...

Dunne is still playing left CB as he was under Sven, first seen away at Villoh I believe where Carew levered him out of the way to score?
Garrido is playing because he speaks Spanish (as does Elano, Robinho and Jo) and he's more mobile than Ball (who's form has also been bobbins).
I don't think he has, either Hart or the new coach has but it doesn't really matter whoever is at FAULT it better change!!!

ctid
« Last Edit: 09 October 2008, 11:04:23 AM by Tragic »
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wasp

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #13 on: 09 October 2008, 10:12:29 PM »

Good effort for a youngun, but, unfortunately, incorrect. Hart has been poor for sure.But Hughes is responsible for picking the coaches and as a leader of the coaching team, deciding what they do.Now, if you look properly at the Liverpool second goal(there was a pic in the Times), Fernandes was the man supposed to be blocking the near post cross, Torres went in behind him,Hart was behind him and halfway between man and ball, then Richards was struggling to get across.But you have to have a big man at the front blocking the cross trom entering the area directly in front of the goal. We had Fernandes.Once he had missed it we were dead and buried, as we were v Omonia when Ben Haim failed to block the cross. Its got nowt to do with Hart, cos he cant hope to cover for a long cross and get to his near stick, 8 feet from goal.The system is to blame, and that is down to Hughes and the coaches.Ben Haim was at fault v Omonia, cos he is shit. But no one could blame Fernandes for not blocking the cross. It was stupidity putting him in that critical position. Liverpool looked, saw and capitalised. A victory for intelligence over stupidity and Hughes can say what he will but its down to him, particularly after Omonia made it so clear. 
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Tragic

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #14 on: 10 October 2008, 01:48:44 AM »

Good effort for a youngun, but, unfortunately, incorrect. Hart has been poor for sure.But Hughes is responsible for picking the coaches and as a leader of the coaching team, deciding what they do.

I agree that Hughes is responsible for the coaches but I do not for one second think he'd tell Hart (or Friedel at his previous job) whether or not he can have men on the near or far post or which crosses to come for and which to stick on his line. That will be decided between the keeper and his coach and will be dependent upon what the keeper is comfortable with or prefers, I seriously doubt anyone is holding a gun to Joe's head given how happy he is with the new boy. Lezzoh will tell players who they have to pick up at set pieces but men in the wall and on the posts etc. are down to the keeper...so that'll be Joe Hart then!

For the second goal I think you'll find mate that Gelson starts off in the centre just in front of Hart so it appears that photo's can lie, he does end up towards the near post though after following a bin dipper or two there (seeing how no-one else botherd to have a mooch). Problem was once Richards ran into the back of Kompany (no struggling to get across mate he ran into the back of his own player) with a keeper nowhere to be seen (Commentator...Joe Hart STARTS to come for this NEVER getting there) Torres was free to glance his header into the net at least the fella on the back post (marking nothing/no-one) had a good view of it.

Scary thing is if people actually watch it again Hart only has Gelson and Torres in front of him, no mass of bruisers to wade through just two players one of which (Gelson) is actually trying to attack the ball and is therefore moving AWAY from him. So erm it was his fault I'm afraid once he decides to come as he is under no pressure, has a clear run to build up a bit of speed and has two wonderful gifts in that situation (1) he can use his hands and (2) Torres bumps into him and it's a foul ALL he has to do is be positive and get there...

Sorry but he got the praise for his improvements last season he can shoulder the stick for his regression this season...and that isn't just the post issue it is his ENTIRE game!

ctid
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BlueAnorak

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #15 on: 10 October 2008, 10:16:56 PM »

Nice try - but as Wasp says wrong. Sure Harts not great but if Cech was behind our clowns he'd be picking the ball out of the net nearly as much as Hart.

As to Hart deciding who goes where at corners and free kicks thats just wrong. Hughes and the defensive coaches decide that and at the moment their choices just isn't working.
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Tragic

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #16 on: 10 October 2008, 11:35:25 PM »

Nice try - but as Wasp says wrong. Sure Harts not great but if Cech was behind our clowns he'd be picking the ball out of the net nearly as much as Hart.

As to Hart deciding who goes where at corners and free kicks thats just wrong. Hughes and the defensive coaches decide that and at the moment their choices just isn't working.

Disagree if Cech was behind our defenders they'd be a damn site happier than they are at the moment as they'd be fairly certain of what's going to happen behind them at set pieces and during play they'd also be quite receptive to being talked to you know so they don't hoof the ball out for a needless corner when there's no player within 10 yards of them...

For "proof" of this cast your mind back to last season and Kasper (Foolham away game would be one of note...try and remember what our defenders were doing and just how SHOCKING they looked) cast it further back to when we signed Seaman and the defenders again playing like DRAINS and then fast forward to Hart replacing Kasper and James replacing Seaman and the wondrous transformation that befell these donkeys when they had a keeper who was consistant (doesn't really matter if it's consistently coming for everything although it helps given the lack of height in our team or if it's consistently staying on his line one thing no defender likes is inconsistency and that is what Joe is at the moment and that needs to change), so sorry BA and wasp but if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck...

Speaking of Kasper I don't recall too many experts blaming the coaching when Kasper was doing ALL the things that Joe is currently doing under Sven that poor sod just wasn't good enough or tall enough if memory serves. Speaking of coaching I also don't recall too many interviews with Friedel in which he reckoned this Hitch fella talked out of his @rse, fair do's to old Brad though he must have been superman to maintain such a magnificent standard in spite of the poor choices made for him day after day if this coach has ruined poor Joe in such a small space time.

The keeper does decide about corners and free kicks I think you'll find, as I state above the manager will decide who man marks who (not exactly tricky Dunne, Kompany, Micah against their best 3...after that we're pretty stuffed as the rest are midgets just like last season) but near/far post and walls is down to the keeper always has been always will be...if it isn't I must be missing a trick so just when does Lezzoh or the coach run on to the pitch stand on the goal line and line up the wall shouting useful things like "3" "left" "right a bit" "SWP you're too fookin little get up front" "Cakedough get them feckin legs closed" at players forming the wall?

Can't really understand why it's so difficult to grasp that Hart hasn't been the same keeper since he came back from the closed season and the defence isn't exactly happy with him at the moment...

Still wouldn't be City if we weren't worrying about some big conspiracy or other, why look for mole hills (that are easily fixable) when we can fantasise about an incompetence mountain... ;D

ctid
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wasp

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #17 on: 11 October 2008, 12:31:21 AM »

So who was blocking the entry to the near post@ No one, not even Fernandez. The coaches decide the general line up at a corner and  ours has been shit for months. Remember Chelsea. Nothing to do with Hart.I agree he has been total shite. Isaid to everyone who would listen at Stockport that he was feckin dire, and somert was wrong with his head. I agree entirely about confidence in the goalie and defenders"form".But the way we set up for corners at BOTH ends is bobbins, and you yourself have pointed this out.
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jds

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #18 on: 11 October 2008, 10:07:58 AM »

Against Omonia the lack of cover was Ben Haim's fault for poor defending, letting the forward get goal side. Against Liverpool it was Zabaleta's fault for getting sent off and not being in his position at the right hand post.
On both occasions Hart stood and watched, waiting for someone else to cut the cross out. He doesn't do anything to organise his defence, leaves it up to defenders to do their job and doesn't know what to do when they fail.

It's a collective thing.
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Tragic

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #19 on: 11 October 2008, 11:14:09 AM »

So who was blocking the entry to the near post@ No one, not even Fernandez. The coaches decide the general line up at a corner and  ours has been shit for months. Remember Chelsea. Nothing to do with Hart.I agree he has been total shite. Isaid to everyone who would listen at Stockport that he was feckin dire, and somert was wrong with his head. I agree entirely about confidence in the goalie and defenders"form".But the way we set up for corners at BOTH ends is bobbins, and you yourself have pointed this out.

No one was at the near post that's why the goal looks totally shite and the excuse of 3 bin dippers and a late arriving City player are complete cods, it was Harts ball ALL day long if he wanted it...closest would have been SWP stopping the short one at the edge of the box.

Coaches decide man marking, how many (if any) stay up, player at edge of box after that it's down to the keeper whether he wants a player on each stick edge of 6 yard box etc. every school boy knows that. I would really love someone to show me video evidence of TC trying to tell Bluedolf how he was setting up "his" defence at a corner or freekick at the swamp... ;D

The only problem I have with the way we defend corners is the lack of a man on the near post and I have been saying that ALL season. The reason being we are limited on who/how many we can mark given the midget like stature of half of our team so after Dunne, Richards, Kompany and Jo we're struggling. Our 5th man HAS to be Hart and he can only do that ONCE he sticks someone on the near post to allow himself that sort of freedom. Once he does that we should get our keeper back...oh course some still think that there's nothing wrong with and it's everyone else's fault for not winning every single tackle, header flick on that makes its way into our box, personally if I can't blame Hart for being pish this season I blame Obama!

The problem I have with attacking corners is that we're still unable to beat the first feckin man MOST of the time, we've signed Brazilian Joey Bartons ::)

ctid
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Tragic

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #20 on: 11 October 2008, 11:17:54 AM »

It's a collective thing.

No it's a coaching, system, formation thing ;)





btw defender on the near post (in case the striker does his job) and the goal against the Osmonds doesn't go in :D

ctid
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jds

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #21 on: 11 October 2008, 01:24:10 PM »

Whilst we're on about conceding goals.....

What's special about the two Omonia games so far this season, including all competitions and even friendlies?
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BlueAnorak

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #22 on: 11 October 2008, 06:51:51 PM »

The keeper does decide about corners and free kicks...

You've got to be 'avin a girraffe. Hughes should be fired tomorrow if he lets the team decide formation and tactics at corners.
For the record I pretty much agree with Wasp on this issue on all counts.
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jds

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #23 on: 11 October 2008, 08:33:18 PM »

Let it lie, accept a difference of opinion, and answer my dead interesting quiz question you fooking bananas.
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Tragic

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Re: Mr. Joe Hart esq...
« Reply #24 on: 11 October 2008, 08:43:56 PM »

The keeper does decide about corners and free kicks...

You've got to be 'avin a girraffe. Hughes should be fired tomorrow if he lets the team decide formation and tactics at corners.
For the record I pretty much agree with Wasp on this issue on all counts.

Are you actually bothering to read my posts or are you just reading the bits you select because the rest of that paragraph gives an example of what a keeper does decide in a match situation?

If not then please do because I haven't said anything of the sort...I have said for the last time HOPEFULLY the keeper does decide at set pieces whether or not he wants players on his posts and for a free kick etc. how many he wants in the wall that would equal him deciding stuff not the coach just to clarify.

The REST of the tactics e.g. man marking, players up front, edge of the box etc. is decided by the manager (but even that isn't hard and fast in a game situation...as a player might not come up for a corner and a player might have to make a decision to mark someone else or space instead) that would equal wasps "The coaches decide the general line up at a corner" I'm guessing...

Easy enough to prove that keepers DO decide stuff like this when you see them every game in every team (as I have already posted above) shouting to players how many they want in the wall where they want the wall to be etc. that is NOT decided by any other person than the keeper in that match at that time as it would prove difficult to coach that kind of thing let alone decide it unless we have Mystic Meg on the payroll?!?

I'm glad you agree with wasp on all counts though, but you might want to read his posts re Hart, defenders confidence etc. the only thing you both agree on is general coaching issues and how they're responsible for all of our ills (well Harts ills the other mistakes are apparently down to rubbish players fooking up). You might also want to ask him about a top notch manager who does let the team decide formation and tactics at corners etc. and for the record I'd have this person at City tomorrow...that's the manager not wasp ;)

ctid
« Last Edit: 11 October 2008, 08:54:41 PM by Tragic »
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